Stargate Rewatch: Brief Candle, Thor's Hammer, The Torment of Tantalus, and Bloodlines

[holdouttrout]

I had very good intentions, after last time, to limit myself to three episodes at a time, because that last entry kind of got away from me. Oh, well.

Here are various thoughts about

Brief Candle

I have to admit, I was not looking forward to this episode. Mostly because of Old!Cranky!Jack. But instead of concentrating on the really bad, awful, hilariously terrible voice RDA uses, or the weird relationship between him and Kynthia, I'm going to talk about the things I did like.

Sam's "Don't look at me, I don't know what to do!" when the boys try to stick her with the baby delivery always makes me laugh. And want to pat young!Carter's head. Although I do wonder why Alekos was banished to the other side of the pillar. Heh.

Thetys shrugging off childbirth was actually a really subtle (for Stargate, anyway) hint that not all is well with this place. I must admit I have a soft spot for the Argosians. They're so innocent and happy.

I do wonder how the Argosians pass down knowledge, with only 100 days in which to do it. And where they got their clothes. Also, I have a feeling the current/next generation is going to be SERIOUSLY screwed up. Going from a short, beautiful life to a long, hard, sometimes boring life? Oh boy.

I also like how much Sam laughs at Jack this episode. I don't see it as shippy so much as friendshippy. I mean, there's obviously a bit of discomfort with the whole Alien-Love-Tryst, but it's not jealousy--just awkwardness.

I like the Argosian's attitude, even though I'm not sure they all would have been as gung-ho to renounce Pelops as pictured. Still, it's part of the THEME, you know--renounce false gods, build a new society, etc.

Oh, and I'm totally reading in that the little nanobots are somehow replicator-derived or inspired. Yes.


Thor's Hammer

Cimmeria! First off, let me say that everything I know about Norse mythology, I learned from Gargoyles, my ex-roommate who was an artist and in love with Loki, and previous watches of this episode. So… not much. *g*

Second, my main question watching this time was "Wouldn't the beam technology at the gate have scanned Teal'c again after he got out? (I'm assuming the answer is that it's only activated on an incoming wormhole, but then the goa'uld could just come in ships, so… I dunno.)

I do mostly get why they didn't just get rid of the symbiotic and take Teal'c back--lack of symbioses is a major problem, after all--but they could have at least tried to do that and left him there for a few days or something. (Not a major grievance with this episode.)

I do, however, love Sam calling the shots when she and Daniel are looking for Jack and Teal'c, and that Gairwyn seems to rule the planet, and that Daniel does, in fact, shoot the doorway, even though it means losing his best chance for Sha're returning alive and whole.

And yay for the first mention of Thor! Oh, if Jack only knew the epic love that was coming his way…


The Torment of Tantalus

One slight continuity nitpick: I buy that there were experiments on the gate in 1945, but WHY is it no one knows how to dial the gate during the movie? They'd figured it out before! ARGH. That bothers me every time I watch this episode. (I get they didn't know what they meant, but still!)

This MAY have been the first episode I sort of saw of Stargate, way, way back in the day. Either this one or 'Need.' I only half-watched both, so I'm not entirely sure that counts. You may be saying to yourself "I thought that other episode was the first one holdouttrout had watched!" and you're probably right that at one point I did say that. I can't keep it straight myself, but since I know for sure I saw these two episodes before the pilot, which I watched in high school with a boy I didn't know very well at his house way out in the middle of freaking nowhere and did I mention I was always a bit modest and shy and there's a freaking full-fronted NUDE SCENE in that episode??--well, anyway, I know that I had to have seen these first. I'm pretty sure.

Ahem. How's that for a digression?

Okay, Ernest's reaction to Catherine the Old is awesome. Also… naked!hugs!

I think this episode is very important for Daniel's characterization, because it shows he's pretty much willing to give up everything to gain knowledge--and he's only kept from that kind of self-destruction by the interference of Ernest, here, and Jack most other times. *g*

How much do I love that it's Jack who gets the universal language first?

And Sam and Teal'c problem-solving is awesome. I'm loving all the Sam/Teal'c stuff this time through, guys.


Bloodlines

Aw, Teal'c. Still letting the Tau'ri experiment on you and your symbiote. How nice of you.

(Spoileriffic Question: it's unclear here that not having a symbiote is the cause of Rya'c's sickness, but later on they more than imply that kids who don't get symbiotes die. I'm just mostly confused because tretonin is basically ground up goa'uld, so what do Jaffa do when tretonin runs out? And how isn't it completely squicky to take it in the first place? Did I miss something vital?)

Teal'c needing to go back is perfectly logical to me. I do love that he's decided he has to go back, and if SG-1 isn't going, then he is. I also love that Hammond's like, "Okay, fine. Apparently I'm not really in control of this place at all. *sigh*"

Bra'tac! Oh, the lack of respect he shows for the humans. Good times. Also Jack's feeble attempts at retaining command of the mission.

I really like it that Sam changes what they're doing when she hears the church bells. No sense in wasting a perfectly good planet when there might be something valuable to get/learn/see. Of course, what would have been even better was a spare. I would have gotten a spare, but then I went to many of my brother's cub scouts meetings and also my mother has trained me well.

Daniel shooting up the goa'ulds makes PERFECT sense to me. I need to remember that next time someone brings up Prototype.

Teal'c's relationship with Drey'auc? Not the most egalitarian or respectful thing, have to say. Also, I think Drey'auc has some good points, although I can't really argue with Teal'c, either. Rya'c is, of course, too worshipful of his father. Aww. He'll learn.

Can I just say that, lack of forethought in the area of a spare aside, Sam rocks this episode? Changing plans, getting a goa'uld, throwing grenades… yeah. I like it.

Comments

[thothmes]

I mean, there's obviously a bit of discomfort with the whole Alien-Love-Tryst, but it's not jealousy--just awkwardness.

THIS. It's not "Wait! He's boffing her instead of meeee!" Instead it's "Oh, shit. So that's the type of CO I've got. 'C'mon Captain Kirk. Let's find your pants.'"

I have always thought that it was a very wise decision of Jack's to have Daniel shoot the doorway of the maze and free Teal'c. Having Daniel make the decision to save Teal'c knowing the cost was the only way to avoid massive resentment on his part. He decided that Teal'c's present need outweighed Shau're's, and that was that.

I assumed that the box of info on the early opening of the gate was sitting in a government warehouse next to the Ark of the Covenant at the time of the movie. Daniel (who is very good with archives and fascinated with the origin of things and the work of fellow scholars) working with Sam the computer whiz, was able to find what neither were able to locate separately. Then they had to wait for a grunt in the basement of the Pentagon to transfer all the material from old unstable film to video tape, and that's why Daniel is only looking at it at the time the episode starts.

Daniel the scholar who is so driven by curiosity that he would lose everything for a chance to discover that "meaning of life" stuff is part and parcel with the one who told Jack and General West that oh yeah, sure he could dial them all home in the movie. It is a measure of how he has changed and lost his innocence that by the time he confronts Khollek, he just wants him dead, when Woolsey wants the knowledge.

As to Bloodlines, I have never been able to figure out why Teal'c thought that not doing the implantation would be a good idea, with that implication that those who are deemed unworthy and don't receive one die. Did he have that much faith in Dr. Fraiser finding an alternate solution? Is that why he was letting Fraiser experiment, in hopes of saving his son? Did he want his son to die free, but found that he could not carry through when faced with the certainty of the death and the trusting eyes of his son?

Jaffa society is clearly sexist, and females are second class citizens it seems, but by the time we meet the Hak'tyl, Teal'c seems to have absorbed the Tau'ri position on equal rights, and accepts them as warriors. To me it seems like he learns this from Sam and Janet, as well as from coming to understand why Drey'auc took up with Fro'tak. I always got the feeling that Drey'auc, like Shau're, was a prize, and that unlike Daniel who was brought up Tau'ri and viewed Shau're as an equal from the get go, Teal'c had to be taught to respect her, and Drey'auc's feistiness is part of what finally did the trick. I think that he grew to love her, and genuinely mourned her when she was gone, but that love was alloyed with guilt for not having loved and respected her from the beginning, as he finally realized he ought. Shaun'ac, because he loved her but could not have her, was always accorded more of his respect.

I'd like The Torment of Tantalus for the naked!hugs alone. Each reaction is just so wonderful, and so expressive, and so emblematic of the character.

[holdouttrout]

I always think Sam was probably relieved that that wasn't Jack's normal modus operandi. I mean, wicked STD aside and all. *g*

And yes, I totally agree about Jack's wisdom in having Daniel be the one to free Teal'c. If he hadn't, he would have always harbored that resentment. Although I suspect if Daniel had refused, Jack would have set Teal'c free eventually.

You're probably exactly right about the speed of beurocracy in Torment of Tantalus. *g*

I suspect it was bad canon-checking on the part of the writers, so it's probably time for a handwave that Teal'c just didn't know Rya'c would actually die.

I'd like The Torment of Tantalus for the naked!hugs alone. Each reaction is just so wonderful, and so expressive, and so emblematic of the character.

Yep. Sam's "Oh, boy," and side-step cracks me up every time.

[zats_clear]

One slight continuity nitpick: I buy that there were experiments on the gate in 1945, but WHY is it no one knows how to dial the gate during the movie?

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the military (and government)'s tendency to file vital information in black holes of no return and their need to reinvent the wheel!

[holdouttrout]

Hee! I can buy that, actually. *g*

[annerbhp.livejournal.com]

I have to admit, Brief Candle is usually where my "Watch from the start" plans get derailed. Lol.

As for Ry'ac and the symbiote, I had understood the 'illness' kids suffer if thy don't take the symbiote to be something invented after Teal'c's defection (in fact in response to it), or, actually, something unique to Moloc and to his Jaffa. But, yeah, hand wave. ;)

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Hah! I almost, ALMOST lost it right there, too. My lack of enthusiasm for this episode surprised me a bit, but honestly, there is only so much creepy romance I can take.

Though the beginnings of the cake cliche can't be a totally bad thing.

Yes. Handwavy powers are essential. :-) Though the idea of the goa'uld creating an illness to force kids to get a symbiote... *shudders*

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Ha, YES for that moment when they all automatically assume that Sam THE GIRL should know about childbirth. Always makes me grin. And then Daniel takes over. "Uh... Two. Counting today." It's just so ::team squish::

My guess is that Alekos was too nervous to stick around on the right side of the pillar.

Doesn't the SUPER-DRAMATIC music when it zeroes in on Daneel's birthmark make you laugh? :)

I, too, love Thor's Hammer, although - yeah. Destroying the Hammer was a HUGE mistake and in a way, the Tau'ri are lucky the Asgard consider them "much too young" and are somewhat tolerant of their amazing ability to Mess Things Up. (Not that the Asgard don't mess things up, too...) And I adore Gairwyn and her self-confidence and hey, she's married (as we learn next Cimmeria ep) and she's still in charge. So there. :)

Regarding TOT, surely that entire event was classified and hushed up and then forgotten? As in, even West didn't know it exists?

I confess that TOT is probably one of my favorite S1 eps. It's what I wanted Stargate to be - the wonder of exploration, contrasted by the need to keep it grounded and human. The interaction between people to keep that grounding solid. Sam and Teal'c, yes, and Catherine coming back into the story, and the sheer courage of Ernest who walked into the unknown and kept himself at least half-sane and Jack wanting hugs and just.... awww. :)

Yes, tretonin is ground-up Goa'uld and is squicky. I once complained about this in detail, and it seems to be the kind of thing that the writers just assume we know, like Jack moving to Washington and Landry's sudden appearance. (Bad writers!) We have GOT to assume that it was refined not to need Goa'uld ingredients because 1. the Goa'uld were dying out and 2. trading Goa'uld dependency for Tok'ra dependency, considering the history of Jaffa/Tok'ra relationships, would be EXCEEDINGLY unpleasant. At the very least, though, Sam figured out how to replicate tretonin in Unending. I'm sure Teal'c made sure that was part of what he brought back.

I ADORE Sam and Daniel in this episode. Sam so in charge. Sam riding herd on her fellow geek, hee! Daniel shooting the symbiotes is another defining Daniel moment for me, because nyah nyah to those silly Saint Daniel fans who claim he's a pacifist! Also, it's hilarious when the Jaffa start shooting, Sam and Daniel make a frantic run for it, Daniel dives behind a tree and realizes he's still holding his ration bar and incredulously tosses it aside. And quite frankly, I think Bra'tac was more impressed with the woman and the soft guy than with Jack by the end of the ep.

Teal'c and Drey'auc... yeah. OTOH? I love this Drey'auc so much, from the moment she leapt on Teal'c's back and tried to... strangle him? Spitfire woman. I would've throttled him too, if I'd been her. :)

(Did you notice how much I'm enjoying your rewatch?)

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Either Alekos was too nervous and removed himself, or he was too nervous and Daniel and Sam banished him. *g*

Doesn't the SUPER-DRAMATIC music when it zeroes in on Daneel's birthmark make you laugh?

Hah! Yes. Although the second time they do that, it's not nearly as bad... probably because all the people are stuck in a coma-like sleep.

You know, I really like the Asgard philosophy toward maintenance of the Milky Way--they do what they can, within certain constraints, and if that means bending the rules a bit... well, then.

Gairwyn mentioned her husband here, saying he was a-viking in the towns, but everyone treats her as their unquestioned leader. Love!

I think I like the idea of them figuring out how to manufacture tretonin without the ick factor... but they really should learn to dot their i's!

I missed the ration bar this time, but that's a great little detail. Love it! I don't know if I'd go so far as to say Bra'tac was more impressed by them than by Jack, but I certainly do think their "sacrilege" got his attention and made him reconsider a lot.

And yes! I think Drey'auc pummeling Teal'c to save her son was awesome, as was her berating him after she saw who it was.

(Did you notice how much I'm enjoying your rewatch?)

You are? I hadn't noticed. *g*

[archersangel.livejournal.com]

Regarding TOT, surely that entire event was classified and hushed up and then forgotten? As in, even West didn't know it exists?
that was my thinking.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

The only way I can talk myself into watching Brief Candle is to think of it as "The episode where Teal'c deciphers Linear A and Daniel STILL CAN'T PUBLISH IT". It upsets me that I don't think anyone's ever written that fanfic (or if they have, I've never found it), because: TALK ABOUT A PARADIGM SHIFT! *is a dork*

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Hah! The only way I managed to talk myself into watching it was the thought of some of the character moments.

I thought of you when I got to the part about Linear A. *g*

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I could have sworn that somewhere between "Cure", "The Changeling" and the one where they meet Ishta, that Janet/Earth had found a way to synthetically produce tretonin. Is that fanon I picked up in some fic and my brain turned into canon?

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I think they must have implied it, at the very least--and it's possible they said outright "Yay! We can make tretonin now!" I just don't actually remember it. *g*

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

From Changeling:

JACOB
I brought something better. Something that could work as effectively as a symbiote. At least for the short term.
[Jacob holds up a vial.]
O'NEILL
What's that?
CARTER
Tretonin, Sir.
[Jacob hands the vial to Fraiser.]
JONAS
The drug the Pangarans offered us?
O'NEILL
Whoa! That's ground Goa'uld, isn't it?
JACOB
It's a little more refined than that, Jack, but yes, it is derived from Goa'uld symbiotes.
CARTER
It supplanted the immune systems in the Pangarans, why couldn't it do the same for the Jaffa?
FRAISER
I've already considered it. It won't work. The sample I studied was designed to take the place of a human immune system.
JACOB
We've since refined it specifically for Jaffa physiology. The Tok'Ra have been looking forward to an end to the Jaffa dependence on symbiotes for centuries now. We've been working on this Tretonin variant ever since you introduced us to the Pangarans. But it hasn't been tested.

So it all depends on what Jacob means by "derived" because it could mean that symbiotes are still used as source material or it could mean that it was based on/derived from the stuff that used symbiotes as source material and is synthetically made.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Excellent. I'm going to wave my magic fanon wand and say that drived means it's now synthetically made, as I can't see Jacob or the rest of the Tok'ra being cavalier about using ground-up goa'uld.

[rdamel.livejournal.com]

I love your rewatch!

I find it somewhat amusing that RDA just loved acting in Brief Candle, though he always mentions who much it got seriously cut to fit the time frame, but most fans find it a weak episode at best. I enjoy parts of it, but I fast forward my dvd thru the rest.

As I do with Thor's Hammer. I love so much of that episode, yet I don't rewatch most of the Daniel and Sam parts of it--fine to watch it a time or two, but not of sufficient interest to let me rewatch beyond that, usually. Instead, I home in on the Jack and Teal'c and voice-of-James-Earl-Jones parts, which I love, and have rewatched a great many times!

Torment of Tantalus is a good episode, yet not one I rewatch too often, really. I get so frustrated with Daniel in this one, and I worry about them getting back safely (yes, of course I know they do, but it's still suspenseful each time, somehow!). I do love Catherine in this and think of poor Ernest living all those years alone--what a hell that must have been!

Bloodlines has a lot of good in it, yet also not a favorite. I liked this Drey'ac better, of the two we saw, however. Loved meeting Bra'tac, of course!

Melissa M.

[rdamel.livejournal.com]

Oops--I meant "how" not "who" above here, first long line.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

and voice-of-James-Earl-Jones parts

Hah! I admit to liking those parts way more than is completely necessary. *g*

[peri81.livejournal.com]

This is making me want to pull out my DVD's right now. Pf the four episodes you mentioned Thor's Hammer is actually my least favorite and I actually like Brief Candle. I love the awkwardness of Jack sleeping with an Alien and just everything that happens.

TOT is one of the best episodes I think. The idea of what is knowledge worth gives me chills. Ernest is adorable to me and I love his and Cathrine's interaction. I'm sad we never saw their story expanded. I figured that red tape buried the original gate research and parts of files were lost over time to black markers and mice.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I do love a lot of the character interactions in Brief Candle. And I LOVE that they brought Catherine in with TOT.