Stargate Rewatch: Tin Man, There but for the Grace of God, Politics, and Within the Serpent's Grasp

[holdouttrout]

I finally managed to hit the character limit in my subject heading. What's with the long episode titles, TPTB?



Tin Man

I have a lot of love for this episode, if only for the fact that nandamai's The Archaeology of Skin is not only brilliant, but introduced me to the concept of OT4. I really didn't mean to rec anything in these posts, but I just can't ever think of this ep without thinking about that fic.

Okay, onto the actual plot.

I have to wonder what Harlan was like oh, ten thousand or so years before this episode. I also wonder if there was another reason the others left--you know, some sort of personality conflict. Not that I can see that happening or anything.

I always wonder about the scene in the infirmary where Jack cuts open his own arm. Just. I mean, we know Jack is badass, and it's possible it doesn't hurt, but… is that really what he'd do? Eesh.

Poor Robot!Teal'c 1.0. :-( I mean, yeah, he was fundamentally flawed, but still!

So… when Robot!SG1 see the originals, Sam goes over to Teal'c first. I really do love the Sam and Teal'c moments I'm seeing this time through. So wonderful.

I also think it's funny that the Carters start arguing, because later, Carter always seems to get along pretty well with herselves. Jack, on the other hand... well, he doesn't usually get to meet himself, come to think of it. If he did, though, I bet he'd be grumpy throughout the whole experience.

I have a little bit of a hard time believing the SGC would just let another copy of SG-1 exist out there. Still, they did promise to bury the gate, so I'm sure it'll be fine.


There But for the Grace of God

The infamous campers line! Oh, how many fics you've starred in.

(Side note: My autocorrect has been running amok recently, so if you notice any really strange words interspersed in my writing, please let me know and I'll try to whip it back into shape.)

Does Daniel really think they'd leave him behind and actually go back through the Stargate to Earth? Really? I mean, yeah, if they were being shot at or something, but… really?

I love Catherine in this episode. Actually, I love how Catherine and Sam are totally running the Alternate Stargate Program, and General Jack is sort of… well, letting them. *g* I hadn't really noticed it before… but I love it.

I'm really fond of the Alternate Realities that SG-1 runs into, or has run into them. I don't care that they reuse them as long as the concept is fun--besides, there's a whole multiverse out there! (HOWEVER, I do kinda think the Asgard must have some awesome dimension-hopping stories from their (collective) "youth.")

We learn a lot in this episode: 1) Alternate Realities exist AND are something you can travel to. 2) Daniel's got strange theories everywhere. 3) Sam is awesome in any universe. 4) The Goa'uld are coming. 5) Gates can only stay open 38 minutes. 6) Most Teal'cs make regrettable hair choices at some point.

Daniel's surprise at Sam and Jack being engaged is hilarious. I always wonder if it made him wonder…

I love the moment where Teal'c tells Jack that the bomb he sent killed his people and family. Ouch.

Daniel is really, really lucky the mirror didn't have the auto-power-down-to-save-battery function turned on.


Politics

Oh, man. You know, Stargate generally does fairly good clip shows, but this one was painful.

The important parts: No one believes Daniel; it's theoretically possible (according to physics) that Sam and Jack are together in some other universe (not ours!); Kinsey is an unbelievable ASS, with a complete lack of sense.


Within the Serpent's Grasp, Part 1

Oh, team. How much do I love the beginning, which is so obviously Jack making one last run at Hammond to try to get things done through official channels, and then going back to the team and being all "Yep, we're going to have to do it on our own."? That whole scene is love, especially since it makes me laugh that they're just chilling in the control room, chatting about defying orders. "La la la! I'll get the guns, guys! Meet you back here after tea!"

Seriously, though, not letting Teal'c go back home--I can see it two ways: 1) Can't let the alien who knows everything about our defenses and weapons and geography, etc go back where he will likely be captured and/or turned back to the enemy or 2) We're MEAN meanies! No going home for you!

I tend toward the latter, because it means I can be angrier at Kinsey.

Then they get through the gate, and they very considerately send the MALP home, which is a nice touch, since it both proves they made it and also saves the government a lot of money. They also find out about zats and TV spheres and hyperspace and learn how to open doors on goa'uld ships. Oh, and that there are always plenty of hiding spacs for stowaways on the darn things. Helpful!

I love the scene where Jack decides they're going after Skaara, and Sam's pointing out that maybe that's an emotional decision, and Teal'c backs Jack up. *hearts*

*draws hearts around every scene with Skaara* I didn't realize there was so much of the host in this episode, or, rather, I always forget about the 'zats = time not under goa'uld control' thing. Not sure why they don't do that more often.

I also love the scene where Sam decides she and Daniel are going after Jack and Teal'c. Daniel's all "Uh, we might wanna, you know, take care of the ship that's going to blow up Earth?" and Sam's all, "Well, duh. Hence the C-4 and an automatic timer, because it's likely we're not going to make it." Oh, Sam. Someone should write the fic where an early-seasons Sam and Bra'tac get together and make plans that always end in death. "Five times Sam and Bra'tac decided it was a good day to die, and Jack convinced them that no, it really wasn't."

I really did see the Sam/Daniel there, guys. It was lovely.

So they go and start rescuing Jack and Teal'c, and then Jack and Teal'c join in, and then Klorel gets Daniel, and Jack shoots him because, really, he doesn't have a choice, and then they're at Earth, and they're DOOMED.

I love this season finale SO MUCH.



The End of Season One.

Comments

[thothmes]

I always wonder about the scene in the infirmary where Jack cuts open his own arm. Just. I mean, we know Jack is badass, and it's possible it doesn't hurt, but… is that really what he'd do? Eesh.

Yeah, I really think he does. From what Daniel says about how he doesn't "feel any different", it probably did hurt, but I think there are several reasons why Jack does this. 1) The silver-grey fluid really spooked him. He knows he's not human anymore, and he wants answers now, if not a week ago last Tuesday. 2) He clearly - from what we see in other episodes (like Solitudes where he walks around on his tib. fracture) - has a rather abnormally high pain tolerance. 3) Walter's right. Jack's "not like other people". I also see this scene as important in establishing for the audience that robot!Jack really is no longer fully human. The real Jack wouldn't do that. Robot!Jack does. The robots are fundamentally flawed, and lack the things that our ties to our bodies bring (like hunger and thirst) too. Unfortunately this means that (alas!) my fondest hopes, namely that the moment the human versions had gone through and the gate shut off, Sam and Jack took one look at each other and immediately went off to find a private corner to shag each other until the plastic started to show definite signs of wear, are probably empty wishes. It does set up a nice moment though, when real!Jack grants the dying robot!Jack his humanity in his final moments.

I love the moment where Teal'c tells Jack that the bomb he sent killed his people and family. Ouch.

And this, perhaps, why this Earth falls. I always wonder if it is because this Jack did not have Daniel to soften him and save him from his ability to take the sin on his soul for the sake of humanity, or whether this Earth is doomed because this Jack is simply by nature that ruthless, as is evidenced by the fact that he did enough "damned distasteful things" without balking to make General that early on.

Oh, man. You know, Stargate generally does fairly good clip shows, but this one was painful.

This one makes me go *shrug. a clip show* but Out of Mind had me shouting at the screen because some of the clips of peoples' memories as seen through the memory device are someone else's POV because the person remembering sees themselves from without. There are places that this might work, but in this context I just found it jarring. Personally I find Disclosure to be the least deftly done of them all, and the most yawn-making, probably because I felt no dramatic tension whatsoever. I just didn't really buy the premise that the SGC-as-we-know-it was threatened by anything more dangerous than boredom or political bloviation.

[holdouttrout]

I always think that it must hurt, too--but I have wondered if robot brains are better about shutting off pain when it isn't useful for the copies to hurt--later in the ep, for example, Jack doesn't look happy about having his skin steamed off, synthetic or not, but he also seems to forget about the wound later on. Which could very well just be Jack. *g*

I really think Earth in the AU was doomed mostly by timing and lack of forewarning. I mean, not every universe gets a sneak peak, so... yeah. I mean, even if Jack hadn't sent that bomb to Chulak, and even if Teal'c had joined them, the timing was already very, very tight--but then, maybe there's a story in the universe where Jack didn't send the bomb, Teal'c joined them, and they all escaped with Daniel, letting him go back to his universe and then they go off to fight against the goa'uld from another planet.

'Out of Mind,' along with 'Jolinar's Memories' and even 'Divide and Conquer' all use the memory devices, and because they rely on clips of other episodes, HAVE TO have a PoV problem. There's just no getting around it, really--the whole point of a clip show is to save expense by recycling material (and also help new viewers catch up), and so they can't get around the PoV problem. Thus, I just have to utilize a nice, strong handwave, and I end up really liking 'Out of Mind' for the way it strings it together with a nice plot and lots of Sam/Jack proximity. *g*

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I have a little bit of a hard time believing the SGC would just let another copy of SG-1 exist out there. Still, they did promise to bury the gate, so I'm sure it'll be fine.

*snerk*

6) Most Teal'cs make regrettable hair choices at some point.

Given what we see in season four, I'd be okay with expanding that to "all". ;)

*draws hearts around every scene with Skaara* I didn't realize there was so much of the host in this episode, or, rather, I always forget about the 'zats = time not under goa'uld control' thing. Not sure why they don't do that more often.

Ah, the episode which inspired me to yell the line in my icon at the screen a lot.

"Five times Sam and Bra'tac decided it was a good day to die, and Jack convinced them that no, it really wasn't."

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!

I do love how many places there are to hide on a Mothership. And Bra'tac's line about avoiding the Bridge because it's too heavily defended (or is that in part II?)

*hearts*

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I was already including all of our Teal'c's regrettable hair choices--surely there must be one Uber!Teal'c out there who has never made a hair misstep! (Hairdresser!Teal'c?)

Or... maybe not, judging from the AUs we've seen. *shudders*

I really want the Sam and Bra'tac fic, now. Maybe I should submit it to the 5 things comm.

[sid]

Maybe I should submit it to the 5 things comm.

I was about to suggest that! :-D

http://sg1-five-things.livejournal.com/27798.html

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Hee! Thanks for the link--that was the final push needed.

[sid]

\o/

[supplyship.livejournal.com]

I always wonder about the scene in the infirmary where Jack cuts open his own arm. Just. I mean, we know Jack is badass, and it's possible it doesn't hurt, but… is that really what he'd do?

Yeah, that was pretty hardcore, though I don't think out of character for Jack.

Most Teal'cs make regrettable hair choices at some point.

LOL! Yes, yes they do. :D

I really love Within the Serpent's Grasp too - so much happens to set up the next 9 seasons! Plus, there's so many emotional punches in this ep. Good stuff. I never see Sam/Daniel tho, but especially not in the early seasons when there's still hope about Sha're. But that's just me. :D

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I can see Sam/Daniel subtext, but I've never been convinced it actually happened--first because of Sha're, and then because of Sam/Jack. This moment just happened to have nice, wordless communication and angst. *g*

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

I always wonder about the scene in the infirmary where Jack cuts open his own arm.

I tend to think that Jack - being "better" - has processed the possibility that he's a robot (or something) already. Maybe not specifically a robot, but I think he's twigged that he's not himself. He doesn't seem to do it with the thought that it's going to cause pain - I think he already knew, and just wanted to confirm it for himself.

Hah, I hadn't noticed that Sam and Bra'tac had that in common. That would make an exellent Five Things.

(I still love how caught up in the whole "engaged?" thing Jack is. Sam has to change the subject twice. And you can see he's sitting there in the background thinking, "Engaged? Seriously? Me and Carter? ...Really?" *g*)

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Think you're right about Jack. He's already suspecting something WAY out of the ordinary--moreso, it seems, than the others.

The question I have about that five things--should I post the prompt to the comm? Because that would be AWESOME, but I'm not sure it's self-explanatory enough.

And hee! Yes, Jack does seem to... think about that. A lot. *g*

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

should I post the prompt to the comm?

Hmm. I think it might work, just as it is - people have talked about Sam's pessimism when it comes to these situations, and we all know Bra'tac's style of planning. You could direct people towards it, with more of an explanation. And even if people don't quite get what you mean, fic based on that prompt could be fun!

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I'm sold! *trundles on over*

Besides, you can't have too many Sam prompts, as far as I'm concerned.

[phdelicious.livejournal.com]

Someone should write the fic where an early-seasons Sam and Bra'tac get together and make plans that always end in death. "Five times Sam and Bra'tac decided it was a good day to die, and Jack convinced them that no, it really wasn't."

I would LOVE to read this fic. :D And, yes, this is a pretty epic season finale.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't that be fun? I wants it!

I love this season finale. It's so good and tense!

[archersangel.livejournal.com]

I love Catherine in this episode. Actually, I love how Catherine and Sam are totally running the Alternate Stargate Program, and General Jack is sort of… well, letting them. *g* I hadn't really noticed it before… but I love it.

i love it too.

Most Teal'cs make regrettable hair choices at some point.

that made me go WTF?! when i saw that hair. what ever happened to bad guy facial-hair?

Kinsey is an unbelievable ASS, with a complete lack of sense.

this.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Oh, the bad-guy facial hair shows up later. *g*