House discussion post for Teaghlach (and anyone else who wants to, like possibly Jenn)

[holdouttrout]

Because her instant messenger isn't working, and I like, totally need someone to talk to about House.



Seriously, this is like my new favorite thing. It's probably just a stage.

So...I just finished the first disc of season three. Which means House just got busted for narcotics by the cop. Oops. I have a few thoughts:

1) The ep where House gets shot? Totally amazing. Actually, it's the one right after he gets shot. But I love love love the mixing of his delusions and what he thinks is reality, and then that moment where he thinks he's actually made a mistake, and then the guy's hand opens and the bullet falls to the ground. To me--that's the moment this show is about. Pulling House along to the very brink--that moment where even he believes he screwed up. In a lesser being, that moment would shatter him, ruin him for the next time, but it never does. Quite.

2) The running when he's pain-free! OMG. I've never been more terrified of the reset button. Because--okay, House was cheerful. CHEERFUL. He was still snarky, arrogant, and completely irritating, but he was cheerful about it. I loved that so much. And his conversation with Cameron? Wow. I just--I don't necessarily think he's right about her, but that scene just made me re-think that assumption. And when he's pushing himself on the treadmill--god.

3) I must admit I didn't watch the ep with the old researcher guy as closely as I should, but I DID catch that Cameron might have possibly helped him pull the plug (I think she did, but there might be some debate out there). Which--interesting. And House showed a little humanity, too. So many good moments so far in season three.

4) The fighting over the carpet? PRICELESS. I love Cameron trying to figure it out. She's taken House up as her own personal jigsaw puzzle. I like it when she's confronting him or puzzling him out and--sorry, Jenn--not so much when she's trying to get closer romantically with him. I think I could see the ship more later on, when she's not taking his BS and giving as good as she gets.

5) How in the hell do they manage to do some of the humor they do on this show without it coming across as really offensive? Do better-informed and more sensitive people than I am find it offensive? I find that this show butts right up against what I consider going too far without ever making me feel like they're disrespectful about it, somehow. I don't get it.

6) Foreman. I like him again, jerk that he was.

7) Chase is starting to not annoy me as much, possibly.

8) Wilson and Cuddy are totally awesome. They are like...they are like House's friends, only they are also totally scheming against him and trying to pool their resources to win a game neither can win on his/her own.

9) What is up with Cuddy and the pregnancy test!!!

10) I had more to say than I thought I did.

Comments

[surreallis.livejournal.com]

Like I said, I thought the first, ohhhh, 2 1/2 seasons of House were just brilliant. Because they focused in on House learning things, about himself and about his friends, and had him grudgingly admitting that he did quite care about them. I think one of the stellar moments for me was when he first bought the motorcycle, and that ep ended with him smiling, almost beatifically, as he roared out onto the highway after a long day. *sigh*

The Tritter arc is a favorite of mine too, I think because House IS an ass, and it was only a matter of time before he met someone else who was an ass, and in a position to do something about it. I know a lot of people hate that arc because they feel as if House didn't learn anything from it, but I sort of felt like that was the whole point. That House would go through ALL of that, and yet then he'd just go right back to his old ways when the coast was clear. He's an addict. That's what they do.

Argh! No, don't apologize for not liking the same ship as I do. (pet peeve) It makes me sound like I'm an over-bearing harpy who can't tolerate anyone liking something different! I don't! You can ship whomever you want. I love Cameron as a character, totally outside of the House/Cameron ship, even if I love them a lot together too.

[teaghlach.livejournal.com]

Now.... on to Jenn's comments (all my comments were in ONE comment before and LJ was like "bitch you talk to much!!! so I had to split it all up):


I totally loved that scene with him cruising around on the bike. It gives him a mobility he doesn't normally have. LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

The Tritter Arc for me... I can't bear to watch it. It's really really really good. And I am just soul-shattered over everything House and Wilson go through during that. Because, let's face it, we all knew House would get off easy. It's his effing show. Haha. But House and Wilson... gomz. Wilson's "I'm going to need 30 pieces of silver" comment before he betrayed House to Tritter was AMAZING. And even more intriguing by that one House promo pic that features the cast in the "Last Supper" painting set-up. (you can see it here: http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=625473&pid=589273487&st=0&#entry589273487 first post. In case you haven't seen it). It's quite an interesting picture if you pay attention to who goes in which positions. Especially when you see Cameron in Mary Magdalene's/John's position. John was "the disciple who Jesus loved" and Mary was, according to many, Jesus' wife. So interesting decision to put Cameron in that spot don't you think?

Anyways, back to the Tritter Arc. Yes... House went through all of that and people SAY he didn't learn anything but... he did. If you watch his interactions over the course of the following year, he's different in some subtle ways. And sometimes not so subtle. Take Thirteen's test for Huntington's for example. He stole her DNA for that just like he stole Cam's DNA for the HIV test. Difference? He opened Cam's results and didn't open Thirteen's. Then there was Cate (south pole doc). He called her by name. And let her keep her socks on. And so on and so forth. He's almost SLIGHTLY more respectful of people's personal decisions. Not hugely so. But he's giving people a small amount of respect and distance that wasn't there before.

[surreallis.livejournal.com]

The bike just... guh! It's so... right for House, and just, the way the music was this hopeful blend of sadness and happiness, and he was driving fast, and we could see the road reflected in his helmet, and his eyes were all bright and full of relief. So good it makes me write run-on sentences! :)

And we just won't even talk about the time he gives Cameron a ride. Ahhh.

Oh man, the Wilson/House friendship in the Tritter arc just gets to me. When Wilson breaks and is like, 'I'm losing everything and you just don't care!' And it's so wrong to expect him to lose everything, but, really, what else did he expect from House? And he was just as cocky as House was at the beginning of it all. One of the things I like about both Wilson and Cameron is the way they know they enable House, and they sort of continued to do it all the way through things, even if they both were able to put their foot down somewhat in Merry Little Christmas.

I'm still not sure what to think of the scenes between Wilson and Cameron during that time. The fact that Cameron was so resentful and angry at him. The things she said about having a problem with him being motivated by personal interest. He was losing a lot, and House's seeming indifference to all that was a hard blow. God, I wish we'd have gotten more Wilson/Cameron interaction over the years. There's so much excellent stuff hidden there. I know the show is all about House being Teh Sex, but still...

I haven't seen all of season 4 yet, and I haven't watched the whole series a second time yet, so I'll watch more carefully to see how much he's changed. I actually felt like the show changed about that time and became less about revealing the layers of House and more about just having him interact in entertaining ways with everyone under the sun. Less content, more one-liners. But I might change my mind with more viewings.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

House on a motorcycle is love. Because you can see his odd cheerful asshole-ery peeking through, just a little. It's as much of a coping mechanism as the pain-killers, only more awesome.

House is such a great character, though. He's got the intelligence and will and strength to do pretty much anything he wants, but he can't get himself around the pain, and that is just so interesting to me. And he does change in little ways, but he's also quite constant, which fits for me. He's made his rules for the universe, and he'll want to stick with them come hell or high water. I think even when he changes, it's not usually big or sudden--any change sort of sneaks around the edges. I get the impression he's not great at introspection, even though he thinks he knows himself very well.

And Cameron's interactions with him--Teaglach is right, I think--he's unreasonably fascinated with her, because she doesn't want to change him. (And I don't think, necessarily, that he's right about her wanting to "fix" him, or only liking him because he was damaged--I think she knows him better than he thinks she does, and could see his denial when he was pain-free.)

I'm not throwing out the possibility of ship there. Not at all. I'm just not sure House is good for Cameron. Yet. ;-D

[surreallis.livejournal.com]

Eesh. House isn't good for *anyone*. But I love fucked-up and angst, and that relationship is ALL about that. And I think he can learn to be tolerable, and the best chance he has is with someone who is his polar-opposite. Others disagree, of course, and think he needs someone more like Cuddy.

His fascination with Cameron does go on, and there are some really great moments in season 3. He tries to pick her apart but he isn't always right. And she sort of teases him with it, because she knows he's fascinated. It's actually pretty amazing the way so many eps end with Cameron and House having the last words together, often picking at each other in a gentle way and putting the case to rest.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Well, as long as we agree on the fucked-up bit, I think I'm okay. :-D

I love when shows nod to great chemistry between characters--regardless of how the shipping is going. It always makes me squeeful. *grins*

[teaghlach.livejournal.com]

1) Yes. "No Reason" was a STUNNING episode. It was a glorious display of acting and filmmaking at their best. Everything, right down to colors schemes was planned out to be symbolic. I can pick that episode apart for WEEKS and still not cover everything. And yes, it is the epitome of what the show is about. Everything is a puzzle. That's it. Life. People. Illnesses. And House finds his value in life by solving them. The interesting part of the show is watching him struggle with finding all the pieces and putting them together and, in some cases, how he copes with his failures.

2) RUNNING PAIN FREE GOMZ!!!! ME TOO ME TOO! I loved that House. And that's the guy that Stacy fell in love with. Totally. From that one episode where she was like "I was with him for a reason. I remember him being fun." That's the guy. The one who can play paintball and run and do lacrosse and stuff. House is an active guy- physically and mentally. His brain goes a thousand miles an hour and it makes sense that his body would too. Unfortunately, he's a guy that is an extremist. He has to do something all the way or he doesn't do it at all. Like Stacy. She moved in with him after a week. And his own health. When he's capable of it, he's in top notch physical shape I'm sure. The minute he lost the ability to be in COMPLETE physical condition, he did a mental shrug and said 'fuck it' then and allowed himself the addiction to vicodin.

3) Yes. Cameron pulled the plug. That's been confirmed on the official website. "Informed Consent" is an epi I love just because of the moralistic quandary that all of the characters face. The moment where House walks into Ezra's room and says "Anyone who can leave should. Make sure someone sees you in the cafeteria" is just SO SO SO telling of all of their characters. Foreman is the first to bail because he never trusts House, never agrees with House. Cameron has her moment of internal debate where she feels like it's morally wrong but her faith in House is strong enough to make her think about it. Chase has absolutely no morals AND unwavering faith in House and will do whatever he wants and so he's the one who stays (which is why House likes to go to Chase when he needs sneaky shit done).

4) The carpets were hilarious. House IS a puzzle to Cameron. She wants to not love him (because even if you don't ship them, there's no denying that she's in love with him). I think she's hoping the same thing he is- if she figures out the puzzle, it'll lose interest. He's doing the same thing with her. The interest House has in figuring Cameron out isn't present with any other character. He might poke and prod here and there but Cameron is the only one he consistently tests and snoops around and spies on and just generally goes out of his way to put another piece into her puzzle. She's doing the same thing to him. One day, they'll figure each other out completely and that's the day where we'll find out if they hook up or just become BFFs. I can't remember who said it... it was either Katie Jacobs or Jennifer Morrison but one of them said that regardless of romantic entanglements, House and Cameron are tied together for life. And it's quite true. They are, very much, the same person. Think about it. And yes, their ship is SO much better in season 4 when she doesn't have to worry about him firing her or having to do his bidding. There's a moment where they're in the lunch line getting food and he accuses her of just wanting to control him and she laughs and says "No one controls you" in this tone of voice that is totally like.... ohhhhh.

5) I personally... sort of see House almost as a comedy. Haha. I was just thinking that the other night when I was re-watching... erm... I think it was "Frozen" since I adore that episode. It might have been "Games" though. One of those. And I was just cackling over so much shit. HILARIOUS.



(i'm over my character limit so I'm breaking this comment up into many many pieces.)

[teaghlach.livejournal.com]

6) I dislike Foreman. He's House but without House's... caring. Does that make sense? I'm definitely not saying House has a heart of gold. But House has boundaries and stuff. Had HE been the one infected in the "Eurphoria" two-parter, he NEVER would have stabbed Cameron or anyone else with an infected needle. House... House will destroy his own life with no qualms but he wouldn't genuinely set out to harm an... "ally" of sorts. Foreman has the same personality as House but he has no issues destroying someone else's life.

7) Chase is an idiot. That's part of what pisses me off about him. He's supposedly a great doctor but that boy lacks some serious common sense. His sneaky, underhanded methods to things don't sit right with me. House is up front about what he does. House will stab you in the chest (and grin while doing it), Chase will stab you in the back while wearing a black ski mask and a voice scrambler.

8) Wilson and Cuddy are totally House's BFFs but... I think that they're bad for him. Their lack of confidence in him and their disbelief of everything he says always sends him spiraling back down into his pit of despair. Had Wilson believed House about his leg pain returning and actually... oh I don't know... HELPED him, then things could have played out differently. Both Wilson and Cuddy want to change House. They've flat out said that. I'm happier with the friendship/relationship with Cameron that he's building because Cam genuinely thinks he's special and unique because of who he is now. As she so angrily asked Cuddy-- "Why does he have to be like everyone else?" And that's what Wilson and Cuddy want- House to be like everyone else. They DO tend to cater to most of his whims and fancies. Which is amusing. When it comes to the serious decisions in his life, they don't trust him as far as they could throw him. But when it comes to medical decisions or blood stained carpeting, they go out of their way to humor him. It's a unique mixture of trustful mistrust.

9) Cuddy was trying for a baby in vitro. She got the implant done (we assume) and finds it didn't take. She's had three in vitros done. Two didn't take and she miscarried one. I can't remember which episode revealed that. So hopefully I didn't spoil anything too badly. By season 4, she's back on birth control (because House switches her birth control with something else when she switches his vicodin with laxatives).

[vickyocean.livejournal.com]

9. I always wondered how House knew she was back on birth control or how he got access to it. Of course, I wouldn't preclude him breaking into her house. The bit of me that leans to House/Cuddy, automatically assumed he must have had intimate knowledge of her medicine cabinet. ; )

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

6) I've gone back and forth on Foreman a bit. I liked him from the start, but he sometimes crosses the line, it's true. He doesn't reign in his opinions or thoughts, which is like House, only...not. House will destroy his own life with no qualms but he wouldn't genuinely set out to harm an... "ally" of sorts. Hmmm...it's certainly possible. I'm not sure. I definitely think you're right about House destroying his own life in the same situation.

7) Chase will stab you in the back while wearing a black ski mask and a voice scrambler. Exactly! I can actually picture this.

8) I think Wilson and Cuddy were the best thing House had--I think it's possible he would have destroyed himself without them. And I think it's kinda bad that they won't/can't stand up to him when it's important. And Wilson should have believed him. Although it's hard to tell, with House.

On everything else, I'm reserving a final judgement.

9) I honestly don't know if they've said anything about it yet or not. I kinda guessed some of that, though it's also possible I just wasn't paying attention.

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

1) The failures are the most interesting thing to me. Because House is this tower--he's this charismatic genius that people hate and love and are complicated about, but he's also a little fragile in the sense that he's just not quite as strong as he pretends to be. And he really is an ass, too. Which is just all kinds of awesome, to me. Horrible person to deal with in real life, yes, but an amazing character.

2) He has to do something all the way or he doesn't do it at all. YES. Definitely. I defiitely see him just...giving up. Anything less than the best is not worth the effort.

3) I was pretty sure. I love that Cameron, who really didn't think it was right the first time, was willing to do that--after they knew for sure that it was, in fact, inoperable. It cost her a lot to do it, but--just, wow.

4) "Tied together fo life." Oh, yeah. I can't wait to see how things are changing.

5) It is kinda a comedy! Dark humor, perhaps, but humor all the same. I don't usually end up caring about the crisis of the week as much as I do the characters, and about the snark. I LOVE the snark.

[vickyocean.livejournal.com]

I find it so funny that the guy that played Tritter is playing George Washington in John Adams. I've only seen bits and piece of it so far, but I sorta want to distrust Washington, because I still see Tritter even through the fake nose.

2. I was kinda sad that he didn't get to remain pain free for longer. I liked seeing a little more pleasant. I was sorta funny, he even dressed better when he was pain free. His comment to Cameron to about how she didn't want him when he was pretty happy and relatively unbroken, sums up why I don't like House/Cameron. I think she sees him as a project (consciously or subconsciously) like Poor Dead Husband and when he's 'fixed' she really doesn't want him. I think House knows that too and thathe could end up destroying her and feeding off her when he is 'broken'.

6. I like Foreman too. He can be a complete SOB and I think that ruthlessness is why I really dig him.

7. I either give no thought at all to Chase or he's annoying me. The "It's Tuesday" thing started to get creepy. Although there are one or two times that I do like him, like when the kid thinks he's been abducted by aliens and Chase really wants to believe and House keeps messing with him about it.

8. Wilson and Cuddy are my favorite part of the show. I just love the friendship between the three of them. It's a twisted, complicated, and strange mix of enabling each other, trust, distrust, disappointment, and ultimately protecting each other.

As I've said before, I'd totally watch the House, Wilson, And Cuddy Show. In fact sometimes I do. When watching the DVDs I quite frequently fast forward through all the annoying patient and Cameron parts, just to watch House, Wilson, and Cuddy interact.

I was thinking the other day about how their whole friendship reminds me of an old screwball comedy with all of their banter, sniping, and the insane situations they find themselves in. I cast Cary Grant as House, Rosalind Russell as Cuddy, and I had a tough time with Wilson. I ended up thinking maybe Jimmy Stewart, Because Wilson looks and sorta acts so wholesome and that's very deceptive because he's got all this baggage with his wives and sleeping with patients.

10. I love that when Cuddy trusted House enough to help her screen donors (though he did go a bit above and beyond).

11. Me too. : )

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I think that there's definitely something about House that Cameron sees as a project, but I do think there's something else there. I think he really threw her off-balance when he asked her out because she didn't get that he really thinks she only liked him because of his project status.

Aliens! Love alien plots.

Wilson just can't keep himself uninvested. With anyone. Hence the trouble staying invested to just one person.