holdouttrout: not your ordinary fish (parker)
This month the nice people at [livejournal.com profile] celebrate_women are...Celebrating Women! There are weekly prompts, and this week's is "role models."

You can kinda do anything you want for it, so I'm gonna just see what happens.

Today, I'd like to talk a little about my first role models from literature. I think that starting life out with good stories about girls who accomplish great things is never a bad thing.

Hah! This means I get to expound on Young Adult lit again, doesn't it? *grins*



One of the very first stories I remember loving as a child was The Farthest Away Mountain, by Lynn Reid Banks. I didn't realize it at the time, but the heroine, Dakin, is a slight Mary Sue. She is pretty, smart, brave, and resourceful. And she marries a prince at the end. Kind of. On the other hand, the lack of ambiguity is appropriate to the age level--I sure didn't care when I first (or third, or ninth) read it. I think Dakin is a good role model because she pays attention and uses the information she's been given to solve the problems that come up.

Another book with a heroine I remember was Dragon's Milk, by Susan Fletcher. Okay, okay. The main character, Kaeldra, has green eyes, fair hair, and can talk to dragons, but I mean--green eyes! I have green eyes, and so this book kindled many a fantasy about Dragons and Adventure and Destiny. Kaeldra is often terrified, but maintains her wits and works to overcome her impossible situations as she risks everything--first to get dragon's milk to heal her foster-sister, and then to save the dragons, who have been nearly exterminated.

(As an aside--it's probably a bad idea to look up reviews of books that were your favorite as a child, because someone invariably puts them down as childish and flawed. Argh!)

I just read this book for really young readers called The Paper Bag Princess, by Robert N. Munsch. It's an illustrated book about a princess all set to marry a prince until a dragon carries him off and burns her castle down. She goes to rescue him dressed in the only thing she can find--a paper bag--and manages to be very clever, only to get snubbed by the prince because she doesn't look like a proper princess. She dumps him. *grins* I wish I'd had this book when I was a young girl. It's tongue-in-cheek, and might have counteracted all those fairy tales I read with their happily-ever-after endings. ;-)

Probably my favorite role model and heroine is Nita Callahan, from So You Want to Be a Wizard, by Diane Duane. Now, I know people's mileage varies with books, but the Wizard series? YA lit doesn't get much better than this. Nita is a true heroine--she starts out looking for a way to fight back against the kids who are bullying her, and ends up being a part of something much larger than she thought. And then she turns right around and says, "Okay, what now?"

To be fair, I'm not entirely sure whether my role model is Nita or Duane. I STILL want to be Nita. I think she's awesome, even if she's still in high school (she's 13 when the books start). But I've MOSTLY given up on the idea that I'm going to find a Wizard's manual in the used book store, and decided a while ago that being an awesome author might be okay instead. ;-)

Oh! And one of the things I REALLY love about the books is the idea that even people who aren't wizards have a say in the fate of the universe. So you have these other, secondary characters, and, yeah, you have some black and white good vs. evil stuff--but the ordinary people make their own kind of difference in the world. And that's hard to beat.

You can read the first chapter here.



Maybe tomorrow I'll find more "grown-up" examples of role models, just for variety...

Date: 2008-05-01 05:42 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] dunv-i.livejournal.com
ext_2356: Water Ribbon (Default)
I used to love the Wizard series. I never read past the 5th one, though.

Truthfully, though, I remember when I read the 3rd? 4th? one (High Wizardry), I felt like I was her sister (sort of a shock to a kid my age then).

And the Paper Bag Princess! I used to have that book! *loves*

Date: 2008-05-01 07:22 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
A lot of people haven't read the later ones, although I enjoy them all. :-)

I LOVE the Paper Bag Princess. Absolutely one of my favorite children's books ever. The illustrations are perfect.

Date: 2008-05-01 05:59 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] gabolange.livejournal.com
ext_2542: (girl power)
When I think about the female role models in the books I read as a child, the list is shorter than I think it should be. This isn't to say that I didn't read a great many books that had female protagonists or that they weren't overwhelmingly awesome, but more to note that the sheer volume of stuff that I read and the breadth of the perspectives within those books probably had a greater influence on me than any series or stories here or there.

There are, of course, a few notable exceptions.

Laura Ingalls Wilder and the Little House books were probably the first thing that comes to mind; Laura wasn't heroic in any particular sense of the word, but I loved her independence and spirit and the way she wasn't particularly afraid of all of these potentially scary things. And I loved that she grew up and had a life, but was independent within it and very much her own person.

I think Jo March of Little Women remains my one true heroine, though, and probably for all the same reasons I just listed for Laura. But she had the advantage of being bookish and operating outside the beaten path, and so her independence always felt a lot more like mine. She was headstrong, quick-tempered, easily frustrated, not the prettiest of the bunch, articulate, quick-thinking, and thus everything I hoped to emulate. Jo March is my ever imperfect perfect character.

It's no wonder I wound up a history geek, if this is the stuff I was reared on! :)

I think that starting life out with good stories about girls who accomplish great things is never a bad thing.

I honestly can't think of anything better!

Date: 2008-05-01 07:26 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
Both of those are great! Jo is one of my all-time favorites, too, just because of the way her character changes so much, and the choices she ends up making.

I read an awful lot of books with awesome female protagonists, myself, and I always have had to rack my brain a little to separate them out. It's only been a few years since I tried to find a number of books again that I realized how much any one in particular influenced me at all.

Date: 2008-05-01 06:20 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] poetressforgod.livejournal.com
I too love the farthest away mountian and many other books by that author.

I really really need to read this wizard series....

Date: 2008-05-01 07:26 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
I really really need to read this wizard series....

YES.

Date: 2008-05-01 06:34 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] knightedrogue.livejournal.com
I always wanted to be Meg Murry from "A Wrinkle in Time". She was plain and ordinary and un-stellar at everything with parents and a sibling who were far superior to her in everything ... and yet she's the most engaging of them all. I loved that sense that it didn't matter what you were dealt in life as long as you rose above it. Or, in Meg's case, if you cared enough to sacrifice everything for what you loved. Because, really, some of us are overshadowed by our parents and our sibling, and some of us aren't gorgeous and social ... but it doesn't have to be about that. It's about what you do with it instead, and I LOVED that. :)

Date: 2008-05-01 06:55 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] mrspollifax.livejournal.com
Oh, I *loved* Meg! I *still* love Meg. The end.

Date: 2008-05-01 07:28 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
Meg is awesome!

Because, really, some of us are overshadowed by our parents and our sibling, and some of us aren't gorgeous and social ... but it doesn't have to be about that.

Yeah. I like that it's about what we do with ourselves that makes the difference--and not what someone else can do better than we can.

Date: 2008-05-01 06:54 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] thekatebeyond.livejournal.com
I love this! I haven't read any of the books, but I still found this very thought provoking. I think you have a point about children and Mary Sues. Children see things in very black-and-white terms, so if the character is already likely to be seen as good or bad with little in between, maybe it's better to err on the side of too good.

Date: 2008-05-01 07:32 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
Well, and I think the ambiguity in children's literature is more a recent trend, too. (In older YA lit, anyway). I think part of the appeal is that Character A is Good, and Character B is evil, and needs to be stopped (and will be stopped).

When you have characters who walk that line, they can be incredibly interesting, but disheartening, too, sometimes.

Date: 2008-05-01 07:20 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] mrspollifax.livejournal.com
Hmmm ... I've read none of these! Which is actually good because I need to start adding to my list of books for when my girls get bigger. =)

Anyway, this is really interesting, and now I'm going to be thinking about my own list for the rest of the day. Hee.

Date: 2008-05-01 07:29 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
Well, if you ever need more recs...I'm your girl. :-)

I love YA! Sometimes I wonder if I'm not quite grown up enough yet, or if being grown up is simply vastly overrated.

Date: 2008-05-01 07:40 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] mrspollifax.livejournal.com
Hey, I certainly think there are aspects of being grown-up that are way overrated (I do not just mean paying the bills), and that the lens of a child is a wonderful thing to view the world through when you get (or create) the opportunity.

Then again you just motivated me to pull The Little White Horse off my bookshelf to re-read because it's probably been ... oh, a year or so since I have. =)

Date: 2008-05-01 11:54 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] binkii822.livejournal.com
Oh! I love The Little White Horse. I had daughters so I could read that book to them!

Date: 2008-05-01 07:58 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] pepper-field.livejournal.com
ext_3314: Woman writing (Angelique)
You might be a good person to ask. I don't suppose you know of a kid's book - for fairly young kids - that features a princess who goes out on an adventure, I forget why, and for some reason climbs a mountain and finds an eagle's nest? I think she makes friends with the eagle - possibly she rescues a chick or something. And I think she also befriends a horse at some point... Not when she's up the mountain, of course...

I've been trying to remember the title of it for years - I adored it when I was little. And the cover was green. :) It vaguely resembles the Paper Bag Princess (in style, and the age it's aimed at), but I don't think that's it.

Date: 2008-05-01 08:50 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
You have stumped me--but I will ask another friend and see if she knows. The internet is a powerful and mysterious place.

Date: 2008-05-01 09:05 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] pepper-field.livejournal.com
ext_3314: Woman writing (Default)
It is! I've been meaning to post about it on my lj, actually. Put the word out, and all that. *g*

I thought it was something called 'The Ordinary Princess', and I found that, and it wasn't - but that's an excellent book, too, talking about juvenile feminists.

Date: 2008-05-02 12:09 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] rdamel.livejournal.com
Sorry, that one sounds vaguely familiar but not with the princess part, so I'm sure I'm not remembering the right book.

I just had to say that it is a standing joke among librarians (in a public library) when we have patrons who come in and describe a book (vaguely) and then say "and it had a green cover." And we look around at the hundreds and thousands of books on the shelves surrounding us, many of which have a green cover and think, "oh, yes, there's a helpful clue".
Sorry, not wanting to be mean, just teasing a little. Thankfully that is no longer my problem. Though I used to feel quite proud of myself when someone came in with a really vague description and by some form of magic I managed to actually lay my hands on the book they wanted!

Melissa M.

Date: 2008-05-02 04:29 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
Yeah. I think when I was little, I went into the library and tried to find this book based on the cover. Wow. I so sympathize.

Date: 2008-05-02 10:36 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] pepper-field.livejournal.com
ext_3314: Woman writing (Peculiar bent of my nature)
Heh - well, I know that's the most useless thing, but it's about the only thing I definitely remember about it. I could pick the colour out of a colour chart.

I look out for that particular shade in the kid's books section in charity shops. :)

Date: 2008-05-03 12:19 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] rdamel.livejournal.com
Well, I certainly hope you do find it. So frustrating to know a book so well, and want to read it, but not be able to find it again. Do put out an appeal on your lj, maybe someone will see it and remember.

Also, there is some sort of librarian's help site, which, having been out of that "biz" for 5 years, I can unfortunately no longer recall. But you could put in a description and it would go out to a lot of librarians and often one of them would know the book and be able to name it for you. If only I could recall how to find that site! I'm sorry I'm not more help. Did you ask at your local library? At a school--children's librarian?

Good luck!
Melissa M.

Date: 2008-05-03 05:23 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] thothmes.livejournal.com
ext_45525: Gleeful Baby Riding A Bouncy Horse Toy (Default)
At the following address:
http://www.thereadinggrouponline.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8

You can find a synopsis of the book Tatsinda, by Elizabeth Enright, which I think might be the book you are after. It's been years since I have read it, and the details in the synopsis do not quite match those you gave, but it is the book that came to mind for me when I read your description.

Best of luck. I hate that nagging feeling of almost remembering but not having enough details to do any kind of proper search. Been there done that SO many times! When I was a kid I spent a year in Greece, and my Mom got me books to read from the Blackwell Children's Series so I could read them and keep up my fluency in English. We left them in Palestine for the use of the elementary schools there when we moved back to the States, and there were several that I'd love to find again, but I just can't recall any titles or enough about the plots to track them down from this side of the pond. I was only seven, and I haven't read them since.

Date: 2008-05-01 10:38 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] binkii822.livejournal.com
Anne Shirley, hands down. She had red hair, and freckles, LOVED books, was smart - and it was OK. Had fabulous adventures with her friends. Grew up and went to college and became a teacher when girls didn't do things like that. Gee - I am a (red haired freckled, book-loving) teacher now...

And NEITHER of my smart, book-loving daughters ever had any desire to read these books. Le sigh.

Date: 2008-05-01 11:16 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
And NEITHER of my smart, book-loving daughters ever had any desire to read these books. Le sigh.

They never do. My mother nagged me endlessly to read Cherry Aimes, and although I read one and enjoyed it, I never fell in love with them like she did. I feel bad about it now, sometimes.

Date: 2008-05-01 11:53 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] binkii822.livejournal.com
Now my mother was all about Nancy Drew and Trixie Beldon, both of which I read, because I read every book I could lay my hands on, but never pushed on my girls no matter now much I enjoyed them. 50's fic doesn't recycle so well to current 'tweens and teens. Dear Anne I felt was timeless, but they did not concur. They are, however all about Diane Duane's books, so I think they'd say you had excellent taste. Though they lean more toward Tamora Pierce. Can't remember which series is their favorite. (Yes they are different ages, and have separate identies, but their taste is very similar)

Date: 2008-05-01 11:44 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] rdamel.livejournal.com
I read Diane Duane's because I was a librarian and I needed to read (or at least skim) a lot of books so that I could fulfill what I always felt to be my primary purpose--connecting books and people.

I liked So You Want to Be a Wizard, but I loved Deep Wizardry--it's my favorite of hers. I didn't like High Wizardry so much because it was about computers (bah) and her younger sister, so I didn't connect as well with it.

I liked the one where she was in Ireland. And the one where (don't read this if you haven't read this series and think you might)



where her mother is dying/and then the later book where she has died, I think? Anyway, that was a killer, but in a good way. And that was one where I bought the books, up to that point, and gave them to a little boy I liked a lot at the library--his mother had died of cancer and he was a very smart kid and I felt he'd connect well with that series, and the message about losing a mother, as well.

I've been gone from my library for 5 years now and last weekend went to a wedding of an old friend and saw several of my friends from those days. One told me that that same little boy is now in high school, much taller than either of us, and that he's doing pretty well. Her own son died in a car crash 3 years ago, and so she keeps an eye on him in place of his dead mother and has a boy to look after, even if it's not her own.

I applaud you for finding good books and promoting them--we all need to do more of this for everyone in our lives who could enjoy and benefit from those books.

Melissa M.

Date: 2008-05-06 02:15 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
Oh, man. The whole mother arc is just amazing on so many levels.

I love recommending good books to people who will like them. It's one of the things that makes me happiest.

Date: 2008-05-06 12:53 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] pixie-on-acid.livejournal.com
Robert Munsch FTW. Seriously, he is the king of children's lit up here. When he does readings, the tickets sell out months in advance. It's a complete performance and the kids go nuts.

I always loved Cathy Burton from Gordon Korman's MacDonald Hall series. While she's not exactly good (she starts riots, stalks celebrities, sneaks her way onto the boys' football team and generally wrecks havoc) or even level-headed, Cathy was a natural leader who got things done. When you consider Korman wrote the first one in grade 7, he did a pretty good job of creating some strong female characters in Cathy and Diane. Yes, the focus was on the boys, but the girls definitely didn't sit by and just watch.

Date: 2008-05-06 02:18 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
That second series sounds pretty fun--I'll have to give it a look!

And some people really have the gift of connecting with audiences. It's amazing.

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